John Krasinski, showrunner Greg Daniels discuss 'The Office' finale
The Office creator Greg Daniels and star John Krasinski took part in a conference call to discuss the final season of the hit NBC comedy. With the series finale fast approaching, the pair discussed behind-the-scenes details about the filming of the final episode, as well as memories of some of the series' best moments.
Credit: NBC
On the decision to have Jim and Pam experience marital difficulties, and the challenges of playing that role:
Greg Daniels: Well, this - for this one, I want to compliment and share credit with John and the cast, who were - the cast who became producers this year, John and Jenna and Rainn and Ed. And this was something that, you know we wanted to do, but the bones of it came a lot out of something from his brother. Do you want to tell the story?
John Krasinski: Yeah. I - you know my favorite thing about the show has always been how, especially with the Jim and Pam story, how real the writers have always been to a relationship in that yes, there are incredibly blissful times, like you were saying. But, there’s also times where, you know the world around them can stall out and feel like it’s not enough or that it is enough, or feel bland or more exciting from time-to-time.
And so, you know my whole pitch to Greg was that, you know we’ve done so much with Jim and Pam, and now, you know after marriage and kids there was a bit of a lull there, I think, for them about what they wanted to do. And the idea of Jim’s ambition was always one of my favorite things from the early seasons that it seemed like between, you know Australia and trying to being the boss at corporate and NYC. And, you know I think that all those things for me were really exciting that Jim always felt like there was something that he could be doing more of, and then I wanted to explore that.
And the idea of him going to another city came from my brother actually. In his work at the beginning of his job, he was traveling a lot all over the country for all his different clients and, you know it was definitely a strain on the family in a very new way. Obviously, not a strain that was as dramatic as what we did on the show, but it was a thing where sort of seemingly simple things like basic spending time with your children and in the same city was becoming more and more difficult, and putting a strain on - you know just harder to do and - mentally.
And so for me, it was can you have this perfect relationship go through a split and keep it the same, which of course you can’t. And I just thought - I said to Greg, “It would be really interesting to see how that split will affect two people that you know so well.” You - I think the exciting thing was to know that the audience would sort of take a guess at what Jim would do and what Pam would do, and so to run those numbers on this relationship was really, really interesting to me. Rather than like, you know, introducing a - you know an affair or something like that, which I think, you know and a huge credit to Greg and the writers. They’ve never gone the easy route. They’ve always gone the very realistic route and I’ve always really, really admired that.
Greg Daniels: Yeah, and I was just very attracted to the idea of doing something that would matter, and that - where there - where people would feel very involved, and I think that there are a number of moments this year where, you know you really become involved in what’s happening. And in order to get that feeling of involvement there, you know, you need some ups and downs.
On whether the decision to have the finale take place several months after the documentary aired was inspired by the original UK Office finale:
Greg Daniels: Well, probably. The - it - we didn’t start off with that as the Finale. This year, the plan was to air the documentary in Episode 17, and as we got closer and closer to that point the, you know writers and I would have furious debates and got - you know we ended up having promos air for the documentary at that point. And we kind of, I think, got the best of what we were looking for, in terms of the characters seeing old footage and everything.
But, we thought it would be difficult to have a bunch of episodes afterwards after it had aired, and so we kind of ended up pushing it off and off, and then it ended up being more close to the British show...
Credit: NBC
On what John will miss most about playing Jim:
John Krasinski: Wow, big question. You’re trying to get tears and I appreciate it. I’m saving my tears for Barbara Walters. But, I mean, there’s so much to miss. I mean, for me, and I think probably more than the other cast members, I mean I was a waiter before this show, so what I miss most about this character is way too complexly entwined in my real life. So to me, this was a winning lottery ticket, except with a winning lottery ticket you just get money, and with this you get a whole change of your life. And everything about my life has changed and become better, and I feel so lucky to be where I am.
So, it’s hard to separate the two, because I’m so sort of meshed in the experience. But for sure, you know I will say, and I don’t know if this a good answer or a bad answer, but I will say I think the thing I’ll miss most is playing a character that people believe in so much and attach themselves to in various degrees. There are some people who think they are Jim. There’s some people who are looking for Jim. And, you know I think to me, and I know to Jenna playing the Jim/Pam relationship and realizing how important it became to so many people was such a incredible honor that Temple-Inland think that there was a small part of my brain that really didn’t want to let anyone down every single week.
And that was actually really exciting. I felt like I was given a tremendous responsibility, and that responsibility I really will miss because it’s just so much fun to play a character that people are watching and rooting for and loving. So, I really appreciate that.
On how much John is going to miss doing Jim's signature deadpan look into the camera:
John Krasinski: I wish I could say I was professional enough to never look at a camera again on another job, but that’s already been blown several times. And bizarrely, on movie sets they don’t really dig it when you look in the camera, which is a bizarre fact.
I will miss it very much. I think that I - you know going back to the other question, I think one of the best things about Jim is that, you know he’s one of those characters, and there are a few others in different television shows, or I guess movies too, but you know I remember talking to Greg in the first week about how he saw Jim as the window for the audience into this office that everyone could watch this office. But, they needed someone to tell them that it was okay to laugh at everything, and to see everything as a little bit ridiculous, and to me that was so much fun to play.
And I remember the first time reading the script that I had to look in the camera. I - you know that’s very stressful, because you don’t want to blow it and overdo it. And, you know I always joke that there’s a number. You know, my favorite thing was our DP, Matt Sohn, was like, “So, on this scene when you look to Jenna, give me the number four.” And I always loved thinking that I had somehow got it down to a catalog of different looks.
So, I will miss it very, very much, and hopefully can leave it on The Office set and not blow any other professional opportunity by looking down the lens.
Greg Daniels: I was watching this morning, there’s going to be this NBC news special, I think, on the night of our Finale, and they requested footage from the cast auditions. And I was watching John’s audition this morning and - in New York.
John Krasinski: Oh, my God.
Greg Daniels: Yeah, it’s really interesting. It’s fun. And I asked you to do some improv about your favorite fruit...
John Krasinski: Oh, my goodness.
Greg Daniels: ...so that we - do we - we kind of went off the - you know the script and you were talking about Pomegranates being your favorite fruit, because you know you only get them once a year or something. And I kept saying, “Be more sarcastic about it.” And then, you tagged it with this amazing look right into the camera of the - you know the audition camera, and you know it was so funny. It just made people laugh. And so, John was just the absolute best Bugs Bunny at getting those looks across.
John Krasinski: I’ve never been compared to Bugs Bunny, and that’s amazing. Thank you. By the way, it should be noted that that audition tape you were watching today was right after I told, what I thought was a nameless person, who asked me if I was nervous to be auditioning. I said, “I’m not nervous for the audition, because you either get these things or you don’t. But, I am nervous for the people making it, because we have a tendency in America to screw up all the good shows that come over from England, and I don’t see how you’re going to make this work.” And he said, “Hi, I’m Greg Daniels,” and I threw up in my mouth.
On the possibility of Steve Carell returning for the finale:
Greg Daniels: Well, you know I think that Steve felt, which I agree with that that Goodbye Michael episode was his goodbye, and that he didn’t want to overshadow the endings that the other characters deserved after all these years, you know, and so I think he made a good call. ... Obviously, it’d be wonderful to have him back, but you know...
On the last day of filming, and how emotional it had become:
John Krasinski: I don’t think there were any tears, right? There was just celebration that this thing was finally over, right Greg?
No, we - again, I think for so many people this wasn’t just a job, and there’s no way it could be just a job. This was a huge incredibly emotional family and connection that we all had. I mean, to say it was emotional would be a complete understatement. I think that, you know knowing what that we’ll see these people still in our lives, and it was still that emotional, it says a lot about how much we are all defined by this show and how much we honor how defined we are by the show.
And I just think that we know that this will - I think no matter what any of us go on to do, I think that this show will probably be, you know what we’re most known for, and that’s incredible. And I think for people to feel so good about that and feel that they were a part of something so special, not only in the television world, but in their personal lives, was massive.
So, you know I’m not giving anything away. We randomly chose a - or we chose a random theme where everyone’s exiting the office for the last shot that we ever did, and I’m so glad we did. It was a very sort of mundane walking out of the office. It wasn’t big and dramatic or anything, and I think it was at the beginning of the show or something, so it’s not like it’s the last shot.
And we were all - I’ll never forget, we were all joking around. I was, as per usual, crying laughing as we exited the - I’m a crier laugher, which is a bummer, but I was crying laughing with Craig and we were all joking around waiting in the hall every time we exited. And then, one of the times we came back, instead of saying, “Going again,” Greg randomly appeared and just said, “Ladies and gentlemen, that’s the end of The Office.” And it was - it really was, I mean even talking about it now, it’s - you know it was a gut punch.
It’s a life-changing event and there’s just no way to describe it. It’s not like ending college. It’s not like anything, really. It’s a part of your life that defined you, and to have it go away is so incredibly bittersweet. I think the only thing that helped us all is that we’re so proud of the work, and that we’re so proud that we got to have a Series Finale. You know, I think that we - you know that’s a very rare thing. And growing up I remember the Cheers Finale and, you know M*A*S*H, and all these amazing Finales, and I remember them being very, very important.
And so, for us to be a show that even got there is incredible, and I think that we’re just all so proud of the work. And that’s, I think, the only thing that prevented us all from just having a complete meltdown.
Greg Daniels: There’s - the lot that we shot it in is all by itself in Van Nuys, and we had lunch with each other every day and there was nobody here who didn’t work on the show on this little lot, and so we did get very close.
And one of the hard parts about the Finale, I think, is that, you know you have to be professional and you have to act and you have to, you know try and keep the tone a certain way when you’re on the set and everything, in terms of like writing and directing. And it’s very difficult if - it also means that, you know you’re going to say goodbye to everybody you’ve been hanging out with for eight years, and you’re - you know you’re going to have to find a different place to have an office in. And so, there is like a lot of weird overlap between the end of your personal work experience and, you know what’s going on on screen, so it was very sad.
John Krasinski: It was very sad. Yeah.
Greg Daniels: At least there’s so many episodes that if you wanted to like rewatch them it would take you a long time. You could enjoy that aspect of it.
Credit: NBC
On their favorite episodes from Season 1 to now:
Greg Daniels: That’s a really hard question to answer. I don’t know if you have...
John Krasinski: That’s a really hard question. It - to me, it’s like saying, what’s your favorite movie? You’ve got to have more of like a top ten and whichever one’s get named get named. But, you know for me the - for so many different reasons, again personally and professionally, I think that there’s so many important moments, some having to do with my characters and others not.
I think the first moment that I can remember the most was shooting the first day of Diversity Day, because the pilot was pretty much word for word the British show, which I know we weren’t all super excited about, but we could understand why we had to do it to see how it stacked up against the other show. And then, our first sort of running at our own pace was Diversity Day and I actually remember people looking around the room at each other, you know as if you do when you saw something incredibly special and important. We all knew that something very, very special was happening, and that this show tonally and from a writing perspective was just really, really incredible. And I remember that moment feeling like that just, you know set the tone for what this show is.
And then, of course, personally for me, two episodes that I’ll never forget is, you know Casino Night, I think just I had never been a part of anything like that. You know, I remember shooting that last scene and Greg had the set cleared and the lights were low and, you know it was - it - there was like an importance put on this, and you realize that it wasn’t an importance because of us, like you know that the actors needed it necessarily. It was more like, “We’ve got to get this right for the people that are watching.” People, like Greg was saying earlier, are so invested in a way that you never thought people would watch TV and be so invested that you can’t just at the end of the episode say, “I love you,” and kiss. It has to be very real and very special and exactly how they think the characters would do it, and that was amazing. That was an amazing night.
And then, the other thing that I remember defining the show was - Booze Cruise will always be one of my favorite episodes on many levels. I think it’s hilarious and one of my favorite episodes. But, going up on the top of that boat and Greg - you know I remember the sun was almost coming up. We were shooting all night. It was the last thing we shot. I think we only had like 15 minutes or something, Greg, if you remember, and Greg just said...
Greg Daniels: Yeah.
John Krasinski: ...“You know, you’re here to say I love you to her. Just, you know I don’t know that would go, just do it.” And I got up and there and just stared at Jenna and had absolutely no idea what to do or how to say it.
And when it aired, I remember it was like 20-something seconds of silence, and I remember watching that episode and saying, “You know, I’ve never seen that. I’ve never seen a show commit to the characters and the story above, you know what would be good for ratings or, you know what the audience would see as very dramatic. It was just like, “No, this is two people who are trying to figure out how to love each other.” And I just thought that that was really incredible.
Greg Daniels: Yeah, that - I mean, the one - the thing that that moment, I think, is very indicative of the show, because often times we would put a frame around very small things and they would then - you would then be able to see the really small things that were going on that became beats of a story.
And so, that was 21 seconds, but it wasn’t the same beat for 21 seconds. It was his face expressing that he wanted to say and she knew that something might be coming, but it didn’t and you know he wasn’t 100% comfortable doing it. And, you know there was a lot of micro moments inside that that you normally don’t get when, you know you have that pressure for getting a laugh every couple of seconds. But yeah, I loved that episode too.
I would add The Job, the end of Season 3, and Business School was a great episode and...
John Krasinski: And The Injury is...
Greg Daniels: ...The Injury was wonderful. But, there’s so many. I mean, I - the first season had all these very comical episodes, I thought, where we weren’t really too concerned with the likeability of anybody, but I kind of loved them just - for the comedy sake. And - you know, and then we had some very good mixes of touching episodes, I think. Whatever. It was good. We had some good stuff.
On what's next for both men:
Greg Daniels: Well, I produced a couple of pilots this year, written by Office writers, and one of them is starring Craig Robinson, and waiting to hear about those, so have some hopes for something to work on there. And I’ll probably be able to have spent some more time on Parks and Recreation next year. And then, I don’t know. I’m - to me - for me personally, it’s been such a - you know a ride that, you know my wife just says, “Just don’t do anything for a little while. Just, you know come off the roller coaster, and then think about your next move.”
John Krasinski: Yeah, I totally agree. I’ve been advised to just take a second, because I think it’s just such an emotional roller coaster. And the fact that this - you know the fact that we stopped shooting, but the shows haven’t stopped airing is very surreal. The fact that our emotions we thought were over, and then you, you know have people telling you, you know, “Last weeks’ episode was amazing.” And you’re like, “Oh, my God, right. It’s still going.” So, that’s sort of bizarre.
On whether either man feels a certain appreciation for the coprorate world after depicting it for nine seasons:
John Krasinski: That’s really funny. I definitely remember Rainn Wilson in some of the scenes were we were doing background work where you had to just pretend to do paperwork.
He was like, “Oh, my God, this is exhausting. How would you ever do a 9:00 to 5:00 job?” And I remember laughing really, really hard. I mean, I think that this is the - there were definitely tastes of it here and there. But yeah, when you’re surrounded by it, it does feel like you’re just working in an office, and that you’re not on a TV show. I think the number one comment, I’m sure Greg can agree, the number one comment of people who visited the set was, “Oh, my God, it looks just like an office,” which I loved. I don’t know what they expected, that it would be, you know huge CGI walls and, you know places for us to wire work and stunts. I don’t know what they thought, but it was really funny that everybody was like, “Oh, my God, it looks just like an office.” So...
Greg Daniels: Yeah, the experience was...
John Krasinski: ...that we were...
Greg Daniels: Go ahead.
John Krasinski: No, no. Go ahead.
Greg Daniels: I was just saying the experience was not very Hollywood, compared to so many. You know, the - you know we were in this little industrial street in the corner of Van Nuys surrounded by, you know stone cutting businesses, and you know - you know and I - we looked at the set when it was - when we wrapped. I walked the set trying to think of what I would take as a memento, and there was nothing that out of context was very special. It was only special all together on the set.
But, you know all the decorations were motivational posters that, you know like - (that inspire) and a picture of a sailboat, and you know the same things that are in any office anywhere. And if you just - if you took it and put it on your wall at home and said, “Oh, this is from the office,” you would go, “Yeah. Okay, I guess.” I could be. It could’ve been - you could have just gotten it from the insurance agent’s office down the hall.
On whether there were any storylines they wish they would have explored:
Greg Daniels: Well, you know this season we hit a few of them. Like, for example, the Belsnickel episode for Christmas was something that we had had on the board for years, and actually had been written as - with whole scripts, one during the year of the writer strike. That was going to be our Christmas episode that year. And then, another time - another year and, you know it got changed. So, that was one that we really wanted to hit from the writing perspective.
But yeah, I mean that’s the - that is a little bit of a nostalgic, like said aspect is you still are coming up with ideas for the show and you’re like, “Well, there’s - the sets have been torn down and the actors don’t work here, and we don’t have any crew.” So...
On the iconic Office set, and whether it's already been taken down:
Greg Daniels: The set, yeah. It’s sad, man. They - it’s just empty. They’re painting everything to look back the way it was before. You don’t want to see it.
John Krasinski: Oh, God.